I would like to resolve the seemingly paradoxical phenomenon that atheists are often the most moral people you'll ever meet.
I am an atheist, but I have moral ideals for how society should function. The one I consider most fundamental is the assumption that the same moral ideals should apply to all humans.
Since I want society to function well, I make an effort to embody the same ideals I expect in others. I don't believe there is a "higher" meaning to life, I think we humans create our own. Improving society is a pursuit that I find worthwhile to pursue on this earth, and as a result I feel good about myself when I do my part by being a good person.
One interesting thing to consider is that it's always the religious people who accuse the atheists of not having real morals. But the reality is, when an atheist like me decides to act morally, it is out of pure idealism. When a religious person acts morally, they expect to get a reward from it -- heaven, karma, a better relationship with God, whatever.
So, it is really the atheists who have the upper hand on the morality issue!
15 comments:
Amen, Brother!
RAmen, brother!
i was pondering this exact idea a couple nights ago.
Comforting to hear from someone with the same ideas.
And that is why religion doesn't work. People are forced or scared into doing something.
Not entirely true.
As a Christian, I can say that I don't hold to my morals in hopes of Heaven. Heaven is obtained not by works but through grace alone. My morality is done out of reverence and respect for the one I serve.
However I don't think your morals are any "worse" than mine since I am a Christian. That isn't how I think, nor how any of my Christian friends think. Perhaps you have a skewed view of Christianity.
Is verbal masturbation wrong, even if it is meaningless and will make no difference in the grand scheme of things? Also, if there are no conseqences, why be moral (or avoid verbal masturbation)? And finally, I don't think you're very educated concerning world religions (opinion derived from reading your good cookie reward system karma point).
I consider myself aethist, and have been thinking about this issue a lot lately. I've come to basically the same conclusions you have.
There's no external force pushing us to give us purpose. Instead, we must derive our own.
[quote]When a religious person acts morally, they expect to get a reward from it -- heaven, karma, a better relationship with God, whatever.[/quote]
not entirely true. i am a buddhist myself. while i agree that a large chunk of people 'act morally' for karma (points), or rewards from god (there is no such thing in buddhism anyway), there ARE people who enjoy doing so in hope to make the world a better place, for personal development, cleansing of mind, or even with no expectation at all. so you atheists arent the only ones who pursuit idealism. :)
So it's completely an "ideal" that you have that x is a better thing for humanity than y. i think we are getting close, but so then, why is acting according to one's ideal good? The idea that there is something "better" or "good" out there that should be done is morality.
Is this subjective, or objective? For theists it's objective: god said x is good, do x. For atheists, how are we to decide what's "moral"?
Here is a good article about this issue.
http://www.hells-handmaiden.com/?p=1187
If you're religious, the final arbiter for your actions is, of course, God. The problem is the broken telephone effect. God won't really part the clouds and say out loud, "No, no! That's NOT what I meant!", so an individual acting in his name has to either rely on very old texts, men in robes, or his own interpretive imagination to rationalize he's doing 'good', according to God. This helps explain why it's easy to garble God's word into some insane act of violence - God himself won't ever clarify the misunderstanding.
An atheist has it far simpler. No third-party go-betweens for them. 'Good' is measured directly by those who are affected by his actions. "Thank you" is a good indicator that an action was moral, whereby "Please don't kill us in the name of God!!" is a pretty decisive clue that an action was immoral.
Give me some of that old fashioned atheism any day.
Whether you help a person across the street or blow them up with a bomb strapped around your waist, you're acting in a way that, in your mind,
By receiving a "Thank you" you conclude that you have done something right? How so?
If you hand over your purse to a thief, and he says "Thank you," and runs away with it, would it make that action right?
Say you are awarding a high paying job to a criminal who in your view is perfect for the job, yet the entire community sees him/her in a different light. You however have the power to sanction his tenure. How would you decide what is right and what is wrong. What is good or what is bad? After all you might just be following a 'text book' of rules and endangering greater humanity?
Treating all scriptures with the same respect is indeed disrespectful to all of them. Not all scriptures exist in an altered form today, dear friend.
You are an undergrad with poor research into religion and beliefs. Please learn about them more and stop mis-quoting Dawkins every now and then.
The "LShap" poster above is not me.
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